[...] that message. Now, if you want to discuss storytelling in games, there are people who have done a far better job than I ever could, so I won’t dig too deeply into it, but I do think this is true: You can [...]

[...] this isn't the place to discuss whether storytelling is possible or desirable in games. There is another thread for that. Even if you're against story in games, put that aside and do some thinking about what it [...]

[...] A few other links on story in games: - Psychochild wrote A spirited defense of storytelling in games. - Particle Blog responded to Psychochild with Stories Etc Redux. [...]

[...] Psychochild's Blog» A spirited defense of storytelling in games [...]

[...] First off, Brian “Psychochild” Green spoke up in defense of Story (link). It’s a well written post with some choice nuggets to reflect upon. [...]

Your reply was so interesting that I made a whole post out of it:

http://particleblog.blogspot.com/2006/08/stories-etc-redux.html

Tadhg

Isn't that half the fun of RPG sessions, or any social activity for that matter ... the artful and progressively exagerated retelling afterwards?

I appreciate the point that many player stories are truly of personal interest only. But there are many that aren't. Clan rivalry. Guild successes. And as Danc pointed out there are examples of global lore (Leeeeeerooooy ...). I also appreciate that there are many differing levels of storying telling.

Storytelling need not be a narrative or multimedia clip (where bad story telling can be especially grating). Simple ingame items like a plaque or statues can also be ways of integrating player story into online games. Example: In SWG I was appreciated for my civic contributions to a player city by having a statue erected in town. Any player who happened by would see the statue and its brief message and perhaps wonder at the background (or not). For those who were in the know, the statue kept the memory.

It's really no different that the decoration permitted in private (or semi-private) spaces in some MMO's. SWG's crafting system allowed items to have custom names ... which became a way to associate a message with an ingame object. How much more potential would there be if designers explicitly supported this kind of activity with better tools (perhaps extended messages that can be retrieved).

I'm sure all stories wouldn't be consistent. I'm not sure that matters. There's lots of things that aren't consistent in MMO's (for example, the fact that nearly every player of a given game sooner or later kills all the same boss mobs).

Developers can also do things to encourage the development of plot, by implementing systems that allow for conflict (or co-operation) to be reflected in game. In PvE games, pacts of non-aggression that have a presense (and perhaps ruleset) in game. Or features that permit player marriage.

These features promote rich player story and a stronger community, imo. And features like this could be taken further. Much further.

If you figure out the rough components of a story, such as interesting characters, a plot, dramatic tension, etc., and talk about whether those should be in a game, you might find people actually agreeing.

I wrote something up about this, but am too lazy right now to find the link.

Absolutely, and that's what I say above. However, I think that as game designers we can plant the seeds in a fertile mind to grow the personal stories they will love so much. This will take more intention than most game designers usually give to this type of design, though. I think that storytelling will come of age in games when designers are able to invoke personal stories in the way they add elements to the game. This is similar to the way other media implies some action or bit of story through what doesn't happen "on stage/screen" (the "blood in the gutters" I mention above for comics, or off-screen events in a movie), or by the details included but not explicitly stated (e.g., The general has a scar across one eye, showing that he's a man of action and is not happy if he's stuck as a paper pusher behind a desk.)

Let me pick on God of War again, even though it was a game I enjoyed quite a bit. [Some spoilers for the rest of the paragraph.] The game makes a lot of things painfully explicit when it would have worked better to let the player fill in the details himself. As a specific example, we know that Kratos has a nasty past, and we know his family died. I put the pieces together pretty early and knew what was happening. Yet, the game had to show in detail what happened, making the story beat you over the head with the scene where he goes into the temple and slaughters his family. You have to shake your head at that point, because the story is overwrought. In a movie, you often see where the protagonist dreams about his family, then is awoken with a gunshot. You don't see the explicit murder of the family, but you know it happened.

This technique of not showing everything explicitly allows the viewer to fill in the details (often in more gory detail than a filmmaker wants to or even can. You don't bore people that have picked up on the clues along the way and who don't need the "here's everything spelled out" scene.

Another example is Kratos's pale skin. It's mentioned in the game a few times, but you don't know why it's that way until you see the spoiler scene above. Giving a few hints earlier would allow people to build the story in their mind, instead of spending time showing it as a cutscene. Instead, I think the writers wanted the skin to be a mystery until you had the big payoff scene where you saw the spoiler mentioned above. Unfortunately, I don't think that type of structure works as well in a game as it does in other media; it is better to allow the player to know the details and assemble them himself, perhaps unraveling a mystery as he goes along.

Once again, we just don't have very sophisticated storytelling in the industry. God of War is held up as one of the best story-based games in recent history, but it's really a simplistic effort. I think we need people to really understand the nature of storytelling in order to tell good stories using games as the medium. I have to admit, I'm still learning this myself, so I understand this isn't an overnight process.

Tuebit wrote:
Can you see methods (beyond ignored background / bio text) to allow players to share these stories they create in their heads in the game world (or perhaps even allow other players to participate in the stories)?

Keep in mind that these stories don't always have to be explicit. There's lots of little things that happen while playing a game that I don't necessarily need to tell people, yet it's part of my internal story for my character. When I was playing EQ2 a while back I got jumped by a super-hard monster while killing trash trying to clear a quest out of my log and died. That's part of my character's story and something that made an impact on me as the player. However, except for this little retelling as an example, I haven't shared this story with other people; although, I was tempted to bitch on guild chat about how stupid that type of design is. ;)

I'm hesitant about encouraging people to bring these stories back into the game, particularly in an online RPG; this is where I balk at the concept of "player-created content" as it is usually discussed. For me, it's like encouraging people to BS about past RPG sessions in a tabletop (pen and paper) RPG. People might share stories anyway, but you don't want to make the whole session about that. Once you get into the realm of computer or online RPGs, you start running into people that can't tell stories. (In a good paper RPG, good role-playing requires a bit of storytelling ability, IMNSHO.) So, encouraging people to bring the stories back into the game might be a distraction. It could also disrupt the story someone else creating for themselves if there are contradictory elements.

Notice how most of Danc's examples happen outside the context of the media. Just because people can bring stories back into an interactive media like games doesn't mean they should. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'll be proven wrong and the future of games will be people telling their stories like this. But my personal experience tells me that the number of people able to tell a good story is small, so this will result in a flood of uninteresting crap instead of doing our work for us. ;)

My further thoughts,

I really like the personal story idea. I think your right in that they are extremely relevant. I find those stories especially apply to the multiplayer space or real world games. "Remember when we played... and then you fell off that cliff hahaha."

Also some games are only games because of a story. Fahrenheit seems a great example. The gameplay just moves the story on, it makes it dynamic, it brings you in.

Of course games like fahrenheit also use dynamic decision and consequence storylines, which is an even greater beast.